Culture and Religion

A world view where the guide for society is based on human nature,
 not on ancient scriptures.  Home  or Topic Groups

Entropy

In the Face Book group:
The post had this content:
Entropy and Evolution are the two basic principles of the universe. These are the two principles that create order in the universe.
Entropy is the principle according to which every form of energy tends to disperse in space, and matter tends to rest or breaks down into the smallest possible elements. Evolution is the opposite of entropy. ...
'
My comment:

I take exception to the 'matter tends to rest or breaks down' There is no tendency to break down. Atoms and molecular bonds are stable. Gravity holds everything down. With age materials can erode or deteriorate but that process is not a tendency to break down into tiniest pieces. I assume lunar probes on the moon will tend to stay intact forever.

His response:

Half-time.

My comment:

beware overgeneralization

His response:

General principles, sorry language…, (overgeneralization)

 It is precisely the reverse that they should finally be pointed out.:) The universe is ordered, it is not chaos.

My comment:

The universe is not ordered; it is chaos. It has known behaviors like chemistry, physics, thermodynamics, but each moment is not predictable. Each moment is the particular combination of what is possible in that current context. A bounce of a ball can keep repeating but just slight friction will effect a perfect repeat.
Consider how it is impossible for a perfect weather forecast, because weather is definitely a chaotic system. The universe has a very long time scale with huge distances so deviations are harder to notice or predict.

His response:

Order is not identical numbers and phenomena. Order is general rules. The ones I give, entropy and evolution. Have you ever seen two identical measurements with the accuracy of the Planck length? No, it is not possible.


My comment:

I have an issue with rules and order.
Because the universe follows a rule does not mean it is ordered. A rule like entropy is our description of the observed behavior; it is not order. If the behavior continues as expected then our description still applies. If the behavior deviates from expected it did not break the rule and become disordered.
Our rules help us describe what is essentially chaos. Similarly time helps us describe a sequence of spontaneous events. The universe does not behave according to our time increments; time is only a tool we use.

Word selection is critical to understanding an explanation.

His response:

The biggest problem for our consciousness is the adoption of the main principles that are not expressed mathematically. This is the reason why we do not call such principles a sort of order. On the other hand, we assume that the principle is something always rotates right?

My comment:

We have different philosophies and the concept of consciousness. Math is not involved.
The universe is chaos derived from its enormous complexity at at all levels.
Some people can accept the chaos; many cannot accept chaos especially as we learn more.
For most people to accept this chaos some sense of order must be defined. These descriptions provide an understanding of the chaos. As we define more descriptions, covering more complex behaviors  and call them rules the universe has the illusion of order, It still exhibits its random behaviors as before but those are acceptable within our framework of rules. If something really bad happens unexpectedly then the final rule is it was just a twist of fate, which means simply we can't explain it.
Hit back to go to previous page in history.
Here is the list of topics in this Cosmology Topic Group .

Ctrl + for zoom in;  Ctrl - for zoom out ;  Ctrl 0 for no zoom;
triple-tap for zoom to fit;  pinch for zoom change;  pinched for no zoom